Employee Engagement Hits a 5-Year Low — And Managers Are Next

[00:00:09] Welcome to Frequency, I'm Chuck Gose And I'm Jenni Field. Frequency is your go-to for real talk about comms, culture and employee experience, beyond the buzzwords and straight to what matters. And this week we're talking about long-term thinking in a short-term world, the difference between remote and hybrid work, the resignation of the UK Prime Minister, and some interesting stats from Gallup.

[00:00:31] But I want to mention quickly that a few weeks ago, it was episode 56, we talked about Meta's model capability initiative, where they were tracking employee keystrokes, mouse clicks and internal messages across hundreds of different sites and apps. And we discussed, you know, the fact that that's just not okay. Anyway, there's reports this week that have come out from The Verge that say that they've now stopped doing that at Meta, so they've stopped tracking employees. So we wanted to let you know that, at last, hooray, they've turned that off. So some good news for us this week.

[00:01:01] Maybe they were listening to us. I'm not quite sure. Let's hope. Did we apply some pressure? I don't know. I think so. I would like to think so. I would like to think so. Jenni, I noticed you're doing this podcast from a different background, which we talked about before, is now because you have access to air conditioning in this crazy heat wave that I think basically all of Europe is under right now. Yes, yeah, we are.

[00:01:30] So I have been fortunate enough to come and join my husband at work today, who has an office not too far away. So I'm enjoying air conditioning because I decided that being at home would be ridiculous because it is about 36 degrees, I think, outside. I'm a little chilly, if I'm honest, in the air conditioning. But it's a good problem to have. But it is stifling. In fact, I just saw on the news that France has recorded its hottest day and night ever in the last 24 hours. So yeah, it's very, very warm over here.

[00:02:00] Well, as we approach July 4th here in the States, just be thankful that we did declare our independence a couple centuries ago, where we do enjoy air conditioning on a regular basis. We don't have a few things up on many countries now, but I would say air conditioning or air con, as you like to say, is certainly one of them. Yeah, yeah, you're winning at that in your houses. It's just not standard. But I was seeing stories, though.

[00:02:25] I think about how are people able to work if you're not in an air conditioned office? And even seeing where you talked about France, where people have drowned because they're jumping into rivers like that's it's it's scary. I know we make light of the of how hot it is, but there is a lot of danger to it. And I'm doing the quick math on my head. I think that's in the 90s Fahrenheit or upper 90s Fahrenheit, perhaps. Yeah, yeah, it's and it is. And you can sort of make light of it. But it is, you know, it's really hard. It's hard for elderly people.

[00:02:55] It's hard for kids like all the schools are closing. And of course, there's no notice for that. The schools just decide, you know, tomorrow we're going to close early, which I saw a post from Shan Chatou on LinkedIn, who was like, I got this notification. I'm going to close to my vacation at four o'clock today that my school is closing at 12 o'clock tomorrow. And at the same time, the train company are reducing their service and my son gets the train to school. So now and I work full time. So it's just it just makes it really chaotic for people. It is. It is. But there again, Mother Nature is undefeated.

[00:03:24] She is. Wins every single time. On to more of a work related topic, though, I did come up. I saw a brand new buzzword for us to add to our list. Jenny, this is doom jobbing. OK, so this is taken off of doom scrolling.

[00:03:41] But now it's basically this process of people just scrolling through seeing jobs that whether they're applying or not, and just am I going to get it or not, which is really just a statement on the current job market that we have all done to ourselves. I find it interesting that they've created a word for that because doom scrolling for me would encompass all things. Whereas if it's now doom jobbing, if you're just looking at jobs, if I'm just looking at like sort of recipes and people cooking, am I like doom cooking?

[00:04:11] Like what are we going to start creating very specific needs? It's very common. It's like what we do here in the US that because of Watergate, everything becomes something gate. Oh, OK. So now I think it's just doom activity if you're just caught up in the cycle of it. Yeah, OK, I like it. Anyway, let's get on to your content here. So I'm going to kick us off because I can't come to the podcast today without talking about the news in the UK this week that Keir Starmer, who's our prime minister, has resigned.

[00:04:39] He is the leader of the Labour Party here, just for some context for those of you across the pond. But there's a lot of talk about what happens next. So I'll link to an article in the BBC and it talks about what's going to happen next, the leadership context contest for the Labour Party that's going to happen. But what I wanted to talk about today was that this article specifically calls out leadership and communication.

[00:05:00] There's a quote in it where it says his opponents claimed he lacked the communication skills to get Labour's message across in an age when authenticity and emotion dominate politics. He could come across as stiff and wooden. So my question, Chuck, is how important communication is for leaders and the need for authenticity or credibility. Getting the main message across that vision is so important for this. And I believe I genuinely do believe this can be taught. Mm hmm. But do you agree?

[00:05:30] I agree it can be taught. I would caution though. I think most Americans would describe British people as stiff and wooden just in general. I don't think that's I don't think that would be unique amongst your prime minister. I think the interesting thing for me is to think about and I heard this on a podcast and I wanted to look up to confirm it that you've had four prime ministers in the last five years. Yeah. I'm going to compare that to having four different CEOs in five years at a company.

[00:05:59] And how much progress can you really make if every year plus you're recycling through? I know that's just the politics and the nature of how even though we're we're both democracies in some form or another, the way people are elected is very different in there versus here in the US. But when I think about so you will have five when the new one comes in, you'll have had five in five years. Yeah.

[00:06:26] We've only had five US presidents since I've been able to vote. I think that math is I think that math is pretty close there. Yeah. So and I would love it if our current president resigned like I would cherish that moment. It just doesn't happen the same way. And I wonder about the politics nature of that and how it applies then in the companies and then the patients that people have or don't have.

[00:06:55] It's just interesting to think about that turnover. I agree with you. We've all seen and heard and felt what great communicators are. So think about just recently Barack Obama's presidential library opened up in Chicago and seeing him come back to the front of things and listening to him talk. And it's like, oh, just what a great communicator he was. There's no perfect president ever in the history. There's no perfect CEO ever.

[00:07:26] But you can't acknowledge that Barack Obama was a great communicator being able to articulate ideas. And at least there, if it's not working, you can swap somebody out pretty quickly, whether that's right or wrong. Whereas here in the US, that's a much different process entirely. Yeah. And I think the swapping, somebody likened it to sort of football where, or soccer, you know, where if the manager isn't performing, you just get rid of them. And that's sort of what our politics have become. It's like, oh, you're not doing a good enough job right out you go, regardless of election.

[00:07:54] And I think that's what's going to have the issue in the UK is that, is there going to just be someone that just replaces him as the leader of that party? And we don't get a say in kind of who that is. And that's all kind of going on. But I do think- And you've had some that have just lasted like a few months. Yes, we have. Yeah. It's been smashing over here. But there again, I wonder, like, what does that lead to? Is it a good thing to be able to replace that leader when things are going well?

[00:08:21] Or is it not having the patience to see something through? That's where I think you see that sometimes in companies. Yeah. And I think you're linked back to CEOs in terms of if this was happening, you know, if you had a CEO who, and I can think of probably several CEOs that people would describe as stiff and wouldn't, not just those in England, thank you, but I think in other parts of the world. And, and how often, you know, they just sort of stick around and everyone just sort of gets on with it.

[00:08:46] Whereas there's something different in politics, and that is different. But I think there has to be this, there has to be this emotion, there has to be this authenticity, this credibility that's coming through from leaders in order to make it work. Because otherwise, what we're creating, certainly over here seems to be this culture of, oh, you know, you're not doing a good enough job out you go so quickly without that patience and that time to really think about it, which is where I think I'll come on to talking a bit later about this sort of long term thinking in a short term world.

[00:09:13] This feels like probably quite a good example of that short term piece as well. Right, moving us on to Gallup. So they have newly released the State of the Global Workforce 2026 report, which reveals that global employee engagement has dropped to 20% during 2025, which is the lowest level recorded since 2020. Gallup estimate the decline is costing the global economy around $10 trillion in lost productivity.

[00:09:38] The report points to leadership quality and management capability as major drivers of engagement outcomes, reinforcing a trend seen across so many studies we've talked about this year. For organizations that are focused on growth and transformation, the message is significant. Engagement is no longer a people issue sitting alongside business performance. It's increasingly becoming a leading indicator of organizational resilience, productivity and long term success.

[00:10:03] Now, Chuck, I've got a long winded question for you today. Peak employee engagement was in 2022 at 23%. And I still think that's the wrong measure for organizational health. But there is one stat in the report that I wanted to ask you about, and that is that since 2022, Gallup finds manager engagement has dropped by nine points.

[00:10:22] So according to the 2026 report, the largest year over year drop in manager engagement occurred between 2024 and 2025 when it declined by five points from 27% to 22%. In short, managers used to enjoy an engagement premium at work, but they are increasingly only as engaged as those they lead. Now, this suggests that leaders engagement is the most important if it ladders down.

[00:10:48] So what needs to happen here? If the leadership, the top engagement is the most important because it ladders down, what does that mean for organizational culture and internal comms and HR teams? Yeah, I want to know if Gallup is saying if the highest point was 23% for employees and now we've dropped to 20.

[00:11:08] What does Gallup think engagement should be? If we're saying that it's costing 10 trillion in lost productivity, like how many people should be engaged? Because what if this is just engagement? What if this is just the way things are? And you should be looking at how do we engage more to reclaim or gain productivity instead of looking at it from a loss standpoint.

[00:11:34] Again, that's putting it on the employees as if somehow they are the ones costing this instead of it being more of an organizational challenge. I do think the point around the managers is well put. I would sort of expect that sometime if we keep this trend going that managers would actually drop below rank and file employees. Because we see I was at a company a couple weeks ago and we're talking about they're like, oh, we're asking managers to do more with less. And I push back and said, I know I think you're asking to do more with more.

[00:12:03] They have more responsibility, more headaches, more challenges, and still being asked to deliver on productivity, on efficiency, on whatever those KPIs are for an organization. So I think it just shows this relationship between employees and employers has evolved over time. And whatever this engagement number is, isn't really changing all that much. I think we're seeing whatever it is is impacting managers on a greater scale.

[00:12:32] But we're also seeing managers where organizations are completely eliminating layers of managers at companies, which means more is being dumped on the ones that are still in place. So I don't know what Gallup is trying to prove here, just kind of saying, hey, guys, it's really bad out there. I know it's going to be really bad. And hey, by the way, it's really bad for your managers, too. I don't really know what we're supposed to do with it. I know. And I've got a bigger I could do a whole episode on my theory about employee engagement.

[00:13:01] But instead, I've written an article for Forbes, which hopefully will be out soon. But I think you're right in terms of what's the number we're really aiming for like that. If it's 23%, what should it be? And if that's $10 trillion, there's just there's so many questions in terms of, to your point, what are we really trying to prove? I think the thing that strikes me in this is if they're saying that their managers are only engaged as those they lead, and that tracks all the way down, then I have a question over how engaged are people at the top.

[00:13:28] Because I do sometimes think they get, you know, rightfully so sometimes quite a hard time, especially from you about having to do, you know, all of the great stuff that leaders should be doing. But who's engaging them? Like, how responsible are they responsible for their own engagement? Because they're at the very top. Like, where does that sit? Because they're still humans. They're still people. They still have that same need that a lot of other humans have for being recognized and seeing being valued.

[00:13:52] So if it led us all the way down, there's a question for me around that value and purpose at the top and how much that's felt in order for that to come all the way through the organization. And I don't think that's talked about that much. I want to know, like, what everyone's engaged in something. So what are you engaged in? What are you asking to be engaged in? And when I look at these numbers, and we've talked ad nauseum that engagement shouldn't be dribbled down to a number. But here we are talking about it as a number.

[00:14:20] I've never heard a company say, we have 20% engagement. We have 23% engagement. Whatever. That's always 70, 80, 90. Yeah. If everybody else has 70, 80, 90, how is Gallup reporting 22, 27, 20? Yeah. Like, those are wildly different numbers, yet we're having the same conversation about it. That's never made sense to me. No, I know.

[00:14:46] And it's, for me, it's starting to get to be quite a boring conversation because, to your point, it doesn't ever change. We're stuck in this 20, 25%. Like, that's clearly the wrong measure. If it was the right measure, it would be moving in a direction that everybody says, anyway, I'm not going to get into that. Well, but there again, maybe the 20% or 25% is actually, that's the ideal state. That's the norm. Yeah. And then if you can, then what are we doing to actually engage people? What are we doing to nurture that relationship?

[00:15:14] How is it this dynamic where employees now feel supported by employers and then, therefore, they support their employers? And that's the game we're out of. It's now engagement is expected. And then if it's not, there's something wrong with the employee, whereas companies aren't doing the work to engage, to involve them in the business. Yes. Yeah. It's doing the work, isn't it? Right. Our next post is from an Instagram post.

[00:15:40] So it had the title of, we ran the numbers and remote work is bad for us. And it's an Instagram post from the New York Times opinion, which prompted some comments from Adam Grant, who I'm a big fan of. And it's all about this nuance of remote and hybrid work and what the data says. So the Instagram post said, we ran the numbers and remote work is bad for us. Both of us have experienced the advantages of remote work, especially when battling morning sickness or caring for a sick child.

[00:16:07] But on some days, we wouldn't venture outside or speak face to face with another human. Surveys of over half a million Americans from the last decade and a half revealed an uncomfortable truth. Despite its advantages, remote work has significantly deepened Americans' isolation and distress. Our estimates that were published in Science this month indicate that remote work explains a third of the deterioration in mental health over the last 15 years. Now, Adam Grant's comment was misleading.

[00:16:35] This might be true for fully remote work, but hybrid work is actually healthier for us than being in the office full time. That's the conclusion of 108 studies, which he does cite in his comment. People who work from home part of the week are happier and don't feel isolated. Now, as I said, big fan of Adam Grant. But his, the post does state this is about remote work and his comment is about hybrid work. And I do think the data is pretty solid in the remote work stuff about isolation. I've talked about that before. But he is also right.

[00:17:05] Hybrid work is better for us. So my question, I suppose, is that we seem to be, it seems to be a comment almost for comment's sake in some ways, because we seem to be getting muddled in hybrid and remote when we talk about work now, because they are different, but somehow we seem to be just putting all of them into the same pot. And I don't know why. Now, can I be very vulnerable about something with you, Jenny? Of course. I really tried to become an Adam Grant fan. I just can't get there. I just, I just can't get there.

[00:17:35] I really kind of wanted to be, and I don't know why I really wanted to be, but I just can't, I can't get there. Side of the point. I think we, we like muddying the conversation because it comes very personal to us. And so some people might like, there's remote work and then there are remote employees and some work is always going to be remote no matter the job. So like if you are a salesperson working for a tech company, working in another city, most likely you're probably going to be a remote employee, but that's the job. That's what you signed up for.

[00:18:05] That's what you wanted to do. I do think it's interesting. We're, we're, we're blaming remote work for a third of the iteration of mental health. There's still two thirds that is being, other things are causing the problem here. I think it really just shows the nature and that in which we are social, that so much of our social activities used to revolve around work. This came up in a conversation I had with communicators a couple of weeks ago.

[00:18:30] I remember my dad, when he worked for General Motors, being in a golf league, being in a softball league. There were these monthly picnics at this park that the company owned. Like that's the stuff that I don't see companies facilitating that type of social activity where I don't know that people still view work the same as they did 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago.

[00:18:53] And so I think the mental health, I think all health has declined probably over the last 15 years. Mental health, physical health, financial health, all of that has declined. Sure, remote work might be a part of it, but again, that's a very personal conversation. Some people might say, well, I do remote work, but I can go into the office. Another person, well, I'm hybrid, but I can work from home some days. So that's where these labels are muddying this conversation.

[00:19:21] I think it's important just to, again, to investigate that relationship between employer and employee. And I imagine there's a lot of companies, if they do things for those remote employees to engage them, to provide opportunities to connect, that's going to be better than companies that just forget about people that are off to the side. I think you're right about our relationship with work has changed because I think that social element has gradually gone away.

[00:19:46] And I'm actually going to, I am, I'm going to attribute that to the employee engagement industry that's come in because we've had to measure everything. So it's like, well, how is this really driving engagement if we're going to go off and have a picnic? It's just a nice thing to do so people can have a nice time and connect with each other. And it doesn't need to be measured and have a percentage and have a feedback survey. It can just be about enabling connection and people connecting with people they work with and building relationships. But everything has become a measure. Everything has become a metric. And I don't think that that has helped us at all. But I think you're right.

[00:20:15] I'm thinking about that a little bit too. I got thinking of the age of my children are out and the age I was at when my dad was working and employed. I knew all of my dad's friends at work. They would come by our house. They would do activity. Like they would go on hunting trips. They would go on fishing trips together. Like not even work company sponsored stuff. I remember inviting them to my graduation party because they were sort of part of this extended family. I don't think that's common now anymore.

[00:20:44] I know I'm in a weird spot because I work for myself, but I just don't see that happening anymore. But I think that's because our social lives have changed. I think that, you know, a long time ago you maybe would live and work in the same sort of area. So that community was felt much more. Whereas I think people commute much more now. It's quite different. So I know when I was working in London, that's a 90-minute commute each way for me. And yes, I have made friends that I still see and keep in touch with. And they've been to my house and I've been to their house.

[00:21:11] But that has built over time, probably since I've left actually more than anything, because it did become slightly more transactional. But I suppose I would just encourage people to be very clear about what they're talking about when it comes to remote and hybrid and the impacts of these different ways of working. Because I do feel that this is very emotive. And I think that there's also a lot of data now coming out.

[00:21:34] We've talked about so much data and so many studies about the impact of working at home on your own, the benefits of hybrid, you know, all of those things. And I just think if you're communicating about this internally, if you're talking about this from an HR, internal comms, leadership perspective, your language has to be really clear. Because otherwise you're going to end up with some really tricky situations. Right. The final article I wanted to talk about is actually a book.

[00:21:58] So it's a book called The Long Game by Dori Clark, which I've just finished reading after I heard her speak at Chris Ducker's Longhall Leader Summit last year. So excellent read. Now, I was reading it for my own development, really, because I like the idea of the premise of the book is all about long term thinking in a short term world. And I thought that there were some things in the book, certainly towards the end, that I thought was worth bringing to the podcast. Because I see this short term thinking quite a lot in leaders as well. Certainly with the leadership teams I work with.

[00:22:26] There's a lot of quick reactions. There's a lot of thinking about the next maybe three, six months, but maybe not kind of further ahead than that. But there are a few quotes in the book that stood out for me, which I wanted to share here. For people that are working in HR, people working in organisational culture, change, internal comms, there were just a few things that I thought were worth it. So the first one is most of life is spent in the deception phase. And it's not just others who are deceived by outward appearances, questioning our approach or our competency. It's also ourselves.

[00:22:55] We look at the lack of results, sometimes for years on end and quite naturally wonder if we're good enough or if we have what it takes. Playing the long game means being patient enough to wade through that self-doubt and persevere. The next quote is obstacles are inevitable. In order to succeed, you have to learn how to climb above them, dig beneath them, smash them to pieces or simply go around. It's your choice.

[00:23:19] And then the final quote is long term thinking and the actions that enable your eventual success requires sacrifice, including at times the sacrifice of our dignity and pride. If you're willing to endure the discomfort and humiliation, the rewards can be powerful. So all of this makes me think about listening to comms teams saying they're the no department or people I coach looking to grow in their career and the way we can kind of beat ourselves up in terms of our progress and how we're achieving stuff.

[00:23:49] So my question for you is, how do you feel about reframing obstacles and the focus on long term thinking and what Dory's saying you need to endure in order to get to that long term goal? Because the dignity and pride bit I thought would strike a chord with you. Yeah, it's one of those things. People were such creatures that want this immediate satisfaction that if it's not there, we tend to bail too quickly.

[00:24:14] And it's in but but the winning is sticking with it long term. And let's use this podcast as an example. I had this idea long before I even approached you about doing it. And then we started doing it. And now we're talking about things with frequency, not just for 2026, but 2027, 2028. Like what do things look like going forward? And I think that keeps the discipline in moving forward.

[00:24:41] I think as long as you're moving forward, it's easy to keep those goals and then play the long game out there. But going back to our very first conversation about the prime minister changing there in the UK, sometimes it's hard to have those inside companies if you don't know what the next month year is going to look like. And so how much in control are you of those goals? Yes, obstacles are inevitable. We see people overcome them all the time.

[00:25:09] But it's do you have the perseverance and the discipline to continue on in times where maybe things aren't working that well? There was this TikTok video that my wife Kristen showed me. There was a really interesting way to view therapy that we talked about. And it said, I'm summarizing this, that basically the point of therapy is to become so aware of your insecurities that no one can use them against you.

[00:25:37] Which we kept processing that. Which is like, you become so aware of who you are that no one, no matter what they say, you're like, oh yeah, I already know that. Like I already know I'm like that. Like that's fine. And I felt like there's bits of me that have gotten to that point. And so I think it is that perseverance and thinking like there's a lot to gain with that long-term vision. But you have to be in the environment where you are in control of that vision.

[00:26:07] But what I think, as you were just talking then about being in it, that perseverance, that long-term piece, being in control of that. I also think you have to have a view about where you're going. And if I think about the comms teams, HR teams, leadership teams, I'm not sure that there is that long-term view in terms of I know where I'm going. And I know there's going to be obstacles. I know they're coming. But I know where that point is. I know where I'm heading. So I can weather that. I can dig underneath it. I can go around it, whatever it is. I'm not sure we've got that.

[00:26:36] I'm not sure that internal comms teams have that this is where I'm going. Or the HR teams have that strategy that I don't know. I just don't feel like in organizations we've got that, I know what we're trying to achieve. Like you said about frequency. We're looking at 2027, 2028. What does that look like? What are we going to do? It's very exciting stuff. But we know what we're trying to build, what we're trying to achieve. So we can play in that space. And it doesn't, you know, there are things. We had a chat before we came on here about, you know, is it this? Do we want to do that? Do we want to go hit? Like all those things.

[00:27:06] That's an obstacle. We're navigating on that. But we know where we're going. I just feel that we lack that end point. And I think that's making resilience harder for people. I think ever since I read the book Soundtracks by John Acuff, I've kept this list of phrases handy for me. And I'm adding one to it from this, which is if you're willing to endure the discomfort and humiliation, the rewards can be powerful. It is always hard to put yourself out there in a variety of settings.

[00:27:33] It will be uncomfortable. It could be humiliating. But you have to do it. And I think acknowledging this is, and people talk about, oh, I did this LinkedIn video and only got so many likes. Who cares? You put it out there. Like you don't know what's going to happen long term with that and the comfort you're going to build or the courage you're going to build. And so the rewards can be powerful. I think we're just so quick to move off of something if it's not quite right.

[00:28:02] Instead of if we really believe in it and knowing there's going to be some discomfort. I mean, we didn't know when we started this podcast what was going to happen. We hoped, we assumed some people would listen. We hope some people would listen. But we didn't know what to expect. We started from zero with this. There's a lot of power in starting from zero. You endure that. The rewards can be powerful. And this is where we are today.

[00:28:26] So not saying we're here to be symbols for this, but stick with it. If you have a great idea that you really believe in, you're going to have to sacrifice. It might be uncomfortable, but that long term thinking is ultimately what carries you through. Yeah. Love that. Right. That brings us to the end. What's your freak out this week? I was thinking about this over the last weekend when we're talking about July 4th.

[00:28:54] And I remember as a kid, I was barely alive during America's 200th birthday. I was six months old, seven months old, something along those lines. And I remember thinking like, oh, what will it be like when America turns 250? Because that was kind of the next big anniversary milestone. Thinking like, man, what an exciting time for our country. And it's not at all.

[00:29:25] It's like, what a whimper as we could have been gearing up as a country into this world with like World Cup happening and seeing all these countries enjoying all these amazing cultural uniqueness. And that America has all, you know, from coast to coast and foods and cultures and all these amazing things happening. And 250 birthday. And it's like, it's like a whimper, which is kind of sad because there's a, there's a pretty good chance I'm not going to be around. Actually, you know what? I actually don't want to be around for 300. Let's just make that clear.

[00:29:55] I'd rather not be around for 300. So it's kind of a, kind of a bummer. I would say I'm freaking out about it from like, oh, I really thought thinking back, like this would be such this cool moment. And it's just really not. Can you do anything to celebrate it to make it brilliant for you and those you care about? Well, it's not so much about my personal celebration. I've never been a big 4th of July person anyway. But, you know, you could. But I just think about the climate of the country and what's going on. And it's just, it's hard where it could be a moment of pride.

[00:30:24] It's almost impossible to be proud of. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. So my freak out this week is do health. So I am a big fan of health and preventative medicine and well-being and stuff. And I have a whoop band that I wear, which tells me everything about myself on a daily basis. But I've just got some results back. So there's do health, which is been set up by Dr. Chatterjee, who I follow in his book, the four pillars.

[00:30:53] I read at the same time as I listened to soundtracks and Atomic Habits. And it was quite a transformative week that week. He set up this subscription service where you can have blood tests and it tests all your sort of biomarkers around your health. And then you get tested kind of every four months. And I've just had my results for them, which are all good, which is fine. A few things I need to change. But I just, I suppose I'm freaking out at just the amount of data I've now got about myself. And I can upload that into my whoop, which has been tracking me for the last two years.

[00:31:20] So I can just get all of this stuff now to kind of help me look at stuff for me, rather than all the noise that's out there on Instagram and TikTok and everything about your health and what you should eat and how you should exercise and what you should do. And I feel like I'm starting to really narrow that into a nice sort of tailored, personalized thing. So I'm kind of just freaking out about having some time to really dig into that and nerd out on the data, which is quite exciting. Yeah. Yeah. What were some of the, if you don't mind me asking, the things that you feel like you need to work on or what did it say that you need to?

[00:31:49] So it went through things like your liver health, your heart health, stuff like that. So it's picked up a couple of things around. So pretty exhaustive. Yes. Oh, yeah. Like it's massive. And it's picked up just a couple of things where it said that you need to have some more oily fish in your diet, try and have some like nuts and seeds, which is fair. Like I don't eat a lot of that stuff. Take an omega-3 supplement kind of thing tick. I'm getting my oily fish. So, but there was nothing in there that was like, this is really serious and you want to look at this. And I wanted to look at things like inflammation.

[00:32:18] I'm also a woman of a certain age now. So I wanted to check some of my hormone levels and stuff. So it was just, it was really interesting. And my sister's a nurse who was entirely nerding out on the results yesterday as well. So it's good. And also it feels like it's going to help me look at what are the lifestyle changes I might make and then look at that in four months and test it and see if it's made a difference. Like I like that continual testing. So yeah, there's nothing dramatic, but I think it will be just a few little lifestyle tweaks. And I think that will be interesting, but it's, yeah, very robust.

[00:32:47] I've seen some people talk about that where it's given them such amazing insight and given them action items on what they can do. And other people, they have like paralysis. Yes. Around it where it's almost like too much data. Yes. Like, like now, and I think that's something we've seen companies suffer with, individuals suffer with. A hundred percent.

[00:33:16] So you can discuss your results and you can talk about it and stuff. And I think if you just got the results and went, oh, okay. Okay. And then it does your little plan. And then that's it. Whereas I'm asking lots of questions. Like, could it be this? Is it linked to that? Like, what does this mean? And then uploading it to work means I've got so much more data. I think if you're curious enough to really interrogate it and ask questions, then I think it gets less overwhelming than when you're just looking at a blanket of data. I was thinking back to a couple of years ago when I had my first heart scan and you can see it.

[00:33:46] And there's like these two little yellow dots. And I remember thinking like, I'm going to ask them. I was like, oh, that's, that's not good. They're like, oh, you've got a score of four. And I'm like, am I going to die now? Like, what does this mean? And they're like, no, that's, that's kind of normal. They're like, you have the heart of a 40 year old. Excellent. So I thought there it was the analysis. It wasn't just the data point. It was putting that data into a understanding for me versus saying, oh, you've got a four. That person's an 80. That person's a one. I don't know what that means.

[00:34:15] Oh, you're 47 and you've got a heart of a 40 year old. Oh, okay. That's good. Thank you. I'll do this heart scan again. Yeah. And I think it's not looking at stuff in isolation, is it? Because when I was talking to the AI piece and I was saying, you know, could it be, I have electrolytes every day. Could that be having an impact on my potassium levels? And it was like, no, because these other markers say this. So this means this. And it's just really clever. Like, and I think that's the problem with some of our medical stuff is it looks at one thing, whereas this is looking at your whole body, which is very exciting. Anyway, we've talked about this enough.

[00:34:44] Everyone's probably had enough of us having our little health geek out. So thank you for joining us this week. We hope that the articles and insights will help you think about how to improve comms, leadership and culture in your organization. If you don't yet subscribe or follow, please do as it helps make sure you won't miss an episode. All the links to all the articles we've mentioned today are in the show notes. You can grab those to read if you want to explore anything further. We'll be back with you on Monday with more news, insights and opinions about everything comms, leadership and workplaces today. We appreciate you being here with us.