From the science behind psychological safety to a product development model being applied to the trust crisis, via the ongoing debate about whether meetings count as real work, this is an episode full of practical frameworks and direct perspectives.
Jenni opens the conversation by exploring the Eat Sleep Work Repeat podcast, hosted by Bruce Daisley, which features Professor Katrien Franzen and her research on leadership and social identity. The central insight is the concept of "we-ness" — the idea that without a genuine sense of team belonging, psychological safety simply cannot take hold. Professor Franzen's research identifies four distinct leadership roles: task leader, motivational leader, social leader, and external leader. Jenni and Chuck examine whether it is realistic to expect formal leaders to embody all four.
The conversation turns to a Fortune article reporting that business leaders are raising the alarm over meeting culture, with Southwest Airlines CEO Bob Jordan among the latest to speak out. Nearly 80% of workers say they are drowning in meetings, and an Atlassian study of 5,000 workers across four continents found that 72% of meetings are deemed ineffective.
Shell Holtz's recent LinkedIn article introduces a framework that applies the Kano model — developed by Professor Noriaki Kano in the 1980s for product management — to the challenge of rebuilding employee trust. The context makes the framework all the more urgent: Gallup data shows only 21% of US employees strongly agree they trust their organisation's leadership, and the Edelman Trust Barometer has recorded its first global decline in employee trust in the study's 26-year history.
Jenni closes the episode with a look at the UK's Best Workplaces 2026 list. The numbers behind the list make the case compellingly: UK best workplaces perform more than four times better than the market and generate 6.25 times greater revenue per employee. Chuck raises a fair challenge about the nature of paid-for lists and the many great workplaces that simply are not on them, while Jenni argues that for internal comms and HR professionals the more productive question is: what are these organisations doing to build the trust that sits behind these results, and what can we learn from them?
Articles mentioned in this episode:
- Nike CEO vents to employees
- Eat Sleep Work Repeat: We-ness: The secret cause of Psychological Safety
- Meetings are not work
- The trust recession
- Best places to work in the UK 2026
Want to find out more about Chuck’s work and ICology - check out the website and how to become a member here: https://www.joinicology.com/
Jenni’s a regular speaker and consultant on leadership credibility and internal communication, you can find out more about how to learn from her and work with her here: https://thejennifield.com/